Bring order to the various "underbelly" tags

Tagging Discussion » Bring order to the various "underbelly" tags Search Posts
Background Pony #B90B
Got a list of proposed changes to various tags that describe the appearance of a creature’s underside. I organized them into several themed “batches”:

Batch 1: Basic changes

  1. Reason: not much reason to single out “white” from other “pale” underbelly colors and the tag already contains many images with not-actually-white underbellies anyway.

Batch 2: Clarify the most common of these tags

  1. merge pale belly into lighter underbelly
  2. rename dark belly to darker underbelly (and alias the old tag)
  3. rename colored belly to colored underbelly (and alias the old tag)
Reason for these:
“underbelly” is a more general term than “belly” that describes a creature’s entire underside, including the undersides of their neck and chest. Although “pale belly” is the dominant of these tags today, the dictionary definition of “underbelly” more accurately fits what this tag is actually used to describe on Derpibooru (not strictly bellies - a number of “pale belly” pics don’t show a creature’s belly at all).
The other tags here are less-used than “pale belly” but I suggest renaming+aliasing them as well for consistency.
As well: replacing “pale” with “lighter” and “dark” with “darker” in these tags will better indicate that they describe an underbelly color which contrasts a character’s main body color(s). These tags should not be applied to a character whose underbelly color matches their main body color and thus incidentally happens to be “pale” or “dark”.

Batch 3: Relate the “scaled” and “general” “underbelly” tags

  1. make colored underbelly imply underbelly
  2. make scaled underbelly imply underbelly
Reason: “underbelly” is the most general of these tags, appearing intended to describe any creature with an underbelly that contrasts the appearance of the rest of its coat.
Note: I did spot a few images under “underbelly” which don’t quite fit its current dominant use. These are easy enough to remove the tag from, however.

Batch 4: Touch-ups to further reduce ambiguity

  1. Reason: The word “underbelly” on its own is ambiguous. Calling the tag “contrasting underbelly” more obviously describes its intended use.
  2. alias coloured underbelly and coloured belly to colored underbelly for consistency with the site’s other spellings of “color”.
  3. Consider merging colored underbelly into contrasting underbelly. If all of the above changes are applied, I’m not sure this distinction will be useful any longer. Those who want to see “contrasting underbellies” but not “scaled bellies” will be able to filter out the “scaled belly” tag. But I’m less convinced of this change’s benefits than the other nine.
Posted Report
Background Pony #B90B
Bump. Would appreciate some input from site staff here and if there are any problems here that I didn’t think of. Parts 1 and 2 at least seemed like no-brainers to me.
Will this be more likely to get a response if I break it up into several threads?
Posted Report
saby
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
A Perfectly Normal Pony - Red is Sprout, yellow is Hitch, you are a lout, and also a bitch.
Speaking Fancy - Badge given to members that help with translations
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -

Moderator
extra fun at parties
Largely agree. “coloured underbelly” doesn’t sound logical, wouldn’t it imply other parts of the body are uncolored, or greyscale? “contrasting underbelly” would probably catch what you mean and be clearer.
Posted Report
Background Pony #7C0D
Also related is the tag countershading which has a particular definition but is getting misused a little, and might not need to remain separate from a generic “different color belly from elsewhere” tag.
Posted Report
Background Pony #B90B
Largely agree. “coloured underbelly” doesn’t sound logical, wouldn’t it imply other parts of the body are uncolored, or greyscale? “contrasting underbelly” would probably catch what you mean and be clearer.
Yep, I agree completely with this point. That’s what “proposal 10” would accomplish.
Also related is the tag countershading which has a particular definition but is getting misused a little, and might not need to remain separate from a generic “different color belly from elsewhere” tag.
Ooh, very interesting. TIL this is an actual anatomical term! And “reverse countershading” is apparently its opposite. These two would be a better “master tag” for what they apply to IMO and should be part of this proposal set.
I’d amend my original proposals as follows:
  1. rename dark belly to reverse countershading (and alias “dark belly” and “darker belly” to it)
Since starting this thread, I also learned that tag implications apparently don’t cascade so all the transitive implications of the proposal set will need to be set up as well.

There’s one more detail which isn’t quite accounted for right now: some characters have their entire undersides in a different color, including both their necks and torsos, while it’s only one or the other for others.
Misty, for example, has a contrasting torso but not neck:
I would find these worth differentiating somehow because they do significantly affect a character’s appearance. But I need to think a bit more about what a sensible way to do that might be - suggestions are welcome.
Regardless, I didn’t find any existing “tagging patterns” that differentiate these three cases anyway so I believe this thread’s proposals can still be implemented as-is without losing information that would help identify them retroactively.
Posted Report
saby
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
A Perfectly Normal Pony - Red is Sprout, yellow is Hitch, you are a lout, and also a bitch.
Speaking Fancy - Badge given to members that help with translations
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -

Moderator
extra fun at parties
Countershading isn’t just pale colour where the deep shadows are (ventral surfaces), it’s also dark colours where the light hits (topline). As the name suggests, the function of countershading is to disguise an animal’s form by counteracting the shading and highlighting that results from natural light.
Sorry for the unhelpful nerd blast. It’s late and I’m an unsurpassed hoot at social gatherings.
Posted Report
Background Pony #7C0D
Largely agree. “coloured underbelly” doesn’t sound logical, wouldn’t it imply other parts of the body are uncolored, or greyscale?
Yes and no…it’s “uncolored” as in “unchanged from the overall fur” - “colored (differently than)”. It’s the phrasing convention for a lot of other well-supported tags - ears, hooves, wings, horn
Background Pony #81B2
Thank you for creating a detailed proposal. I did not notice this thread before. I mentioned the overlap of belly tags 2 years ago. One thing that was not mentioned in this thread yet, is the need to alias belly scales and scaled underbelly.
@saby
Regarding point 10: we have multiple colored <body part> tags which mean that this body part has a different color than its “default” color. (Examples of default colors include body/coat color for things like legs, black for pupils, red for blood, etc.)
Also aliasing of colored underbelly into contrasting underbelly would mean that users searching for non-scaled bellies would have to use contrasting underbelly && !scaled underbelly. This is problematic, because a lot of users are confused even by something as simple as an AND operator. If you add negation to the mix, it’s black magic for them.
Background Pony #81B2
When looking through various belly tags, I also found:
  • Darker belly, which should be aliased into dark belly.
  • Belly plates, which should be aliased into scaled underbelly.
  • Dragon belly, which probably should be removed. Uploader probably meant “ligher belly, like dragons usually have”.
  • Purple belly, which should imply colored belly.
  • Transparent belly and translucent belly, which are a mix of crystal ponies and changeling-inspired bellies you can see into. The latter are usually contrasting. Not sure if we should do anything related to this tag.
  • Starry belly, which is only used for one OC where it’s contrasting, but theoretically doesn’t have to be (e.g., darkly colored character with stars only on belly). Not sure if we should do anything related to this tag.
I also looked at countershading tags. Findings:
  • Reverse countershading existed on one image, but was replaced with regular countershading, which is against the tag hierarchy proposed in this thread. Probably should be restored.
  • Countershade feet exists. It’s not belly related and it’s not countershading in the biological sense (soles stand on the ground, making them lighter does not camouflage anything), but it shows that people use “countershading” to mean some body part is lighter colored.
Interested in advertising on Derpibooru? Click here for information!
Champions of Equestria

Help fund the $15 daily operational cost of Derpibooru - support us financially!

Syntax quick reference: **bold** *italic* ||hide text|| `code` __underline__ ~~strike~~ ^sup^ %sub%

Detailed syntax guide