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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
Same.

Posted 2 years ago Report

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Incursor

@Macaroni C-Pony
I can accept main characters, or half to two-thirds of them (Twilight, Rainbow and Pinkie, Raiity by the finale, out of the Mane Six) capable of bullet negating feats like so. (For those like Fluttershy, their feats lie elsewhere than combat such anyone putting them there deserves to lose.)

Unless we want to debate if enough percent of their army/population is capable of main character-tier (they are the top precent) feats to offset humans firearms advantage (note the Crystal War timeline where they had their best military showing they were evenly match by opponents without guns) I think we’ve discussed this to conclusion.

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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
I agree with this take completely. It only becomes a stomp when one of the main cast is involved

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Incursor

@Macaroni C-Pony
The Wonderbolts I can say are reliably pulling the kind of feats we’re discussing. Their defeats/failure in a fight I can excuse as them being glass cannons and not fully military. (That their actually military is worse in a least Wonderbolts are capable outside a fight is another issue.)

The Crystal War timeline from the S5 finale is the apparent best case for their military capacity, with the average guard adequate to hold the line and Earth and Pegasi elite units capable of the high end feats. But even then they didn’t have Unicorns elite enough to use shields or high end spells Equestria would need to offset human firearms. Thus my argument that not enough ponies would be capable of the high end feats calculated to make it a curb stomp against humanity. (If their toon physics durability makes them bullet resistant that might change things.)

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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
I guess we can agree the efficiency of the Royal Guard alone is up for the debate. I don’t really consider their role important enough in this particular debate so I’m inclined to open minded with how strong they really are on average

Personally, I think scaling does benefit them greatly, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s all we can do for them. Even the Wonderbolts have shown more capability directly

Their case here is very objective

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Incursor

@Macaroni C-Pony
Agree that the reason for this inconsistency is due to fighting ability and power levels are secondary to point and focus of the series. (Why they even have a military if it has to be useless and why we’re debating something so contrary to the show’s emphasis is a question outside this scope.)

But with that, maybe their so often failing to measure up to the calculated power is just as real as said power. Maybe there is legitimate reason beyond “writing contrivance” (if analyzing dietetically we can only assume such after exhausting in-universe explanations) that’s holding them back.

Possible reasons: Maybe using their full calculated power require a mental state they don’t reliably have (effectively never for the military). Maybe their magic doesn’t translate into its thermodynamic energy equivalent (why the Princesses never showed stellar output outside moving celestial bodies) or physics are so different (the sun requires the same energy to move as the moon) that such calculations are unreliable measures. Maybe their losses were do to their opponents similarly scaling in power (which wouldn’t explain their incompetence/failing to use powers they do/should have).

If we assume the Royal Guard should be capable of X despite being consistently shown incapable in spite of efforts to train, it’s equivalent to inventing noncanon feats to bolster your argument. (With Stormtroopers they have shown such feats/wins we can “prove” their shown ineffectiveness as narrative bias editing around what shows them effective. RG don’t even have that.) At best it means a vast majority of their military will be incapable of the feats their calculated win hinges on. The question is how many would be so effective and would that be enough to challenge all humanity?

I get that VS. debates are just calculating and comparing their best feats. I’m debating why they oft fall short of calculations and if such would apply in a VS. situation. If we can’t even agree to debate the same thing maybe we should just agree to disagree as it’s going nowhere.

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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
Well, it’s true the Royal Guard are genuinely featless. Only by scaling to secondary characters can we assume how strong and fast would they amount to, such as Apple Bloom and Derpy, who both are able to shrug off and dodge actual lighting. But that’s on by assumption

And I agree with how the ponies don’t often display correct power levels. However, in my opinion this is do to the moral nature of the show rather than mere “writing contrivance”

It’s show about Friendship. Unlike Steven Universe or Star Butterfly, the moral lessons have always come first. “My Little Pony” was never meant to be an action show, and while they may lack actual displays of power, the “plot convenience” is much more justifiable when you realize this serves as the whole framework of the series.

Another factor is the genre. MLP is a fantasy adventure cartoon. However, it’s ALSO regarded as a slapstick comedy, similar SpongeBob and or Ed Edd n Eddy. ADDITIONALLY, MLP revolves around magic, in the magical world of Equestria. Magic is already one of the most unpredictable tropes in fiction, and it’s often seen as a plot device.

While the ponies may not display bouts of power often, they have enough justification in this regard to explain why, however this doesn’t translate into a Vs debate, which there are clear rules to how characters are portrayed and analyzed.

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Incursor

@Macaroni C-Pony
Unless said feats are of the actual royal guard, showing that like Stormtroopers their ineffectiveness is exaggerated, that won’t address the aspect I’m debating about this.

Remembered that “Horse Play” established it took six unicorn mages to move the sun and moon. A normal above average pony having that level of power would easily justify all the OP feats. Even if average ponies have just a fraction of that it should be an easy win, if not for all the time in the show they were outmatched/defeated despite that theoretical power.

The main characters are the only ones who semi-regularly translate that into combat effectiveness. Their military effectively never. Celestia, Luna, and everypony else more often than not fail to.

I agree ponies would win if it was just a matter of power. But they so often fail to show or apply that power where it matters that there must be some limitation (it’s too common to dismiss as writing contrivance) that whatever’s causing that needs to be considered.

What I’m debating is what is/may be causing them to fall below their mathematically expected performance and if that would apply in a vs. humans scenario.

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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
It’s 4:00 in the morning as of typing this, which means I’ll probably be asleep until 1pm, but I DO have quite the list of feats recorded to back up my arguments here.

But yeah, I’m inclined to somewhat agree on the performance of the royal guard because they simply don’t have much to go on.

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Incursor

@GrimChariot
Saying they wouldn’t have that level of power because said power is fiction breaks the point of this game, which by it’s nature assumes their feats would be as real as shown in the work. The calculations they provided overlook examples of “toon physics” or such and is all about what is definitely treated as “real” within the work.

I agree the calculations overestimate their shown ability, but we can’t just arbitrarily dismiss them. We have to have equally diegetic reasons to explain why they’ve wouldn’t be expected use used said level of ability.

@Macaroni C-Pony
The calculations you provided are upper limits/best case scenario for ponies. But they so often fall short of that ideal in a fight with only a small few living up to that level (with their military suffering worst despite that one would expect it to have their best) that it’s unrealistic not to assume whatever limitations are causing this discrepancy between calculated and shown power won’t apply in this hypothetical fight.

If we can determine what those limits are (it’s far too frequent to just dismiss as bad writing), then we can debate if they would apply or could be overcome (I can see the Mane Six overcoming given they have been so effective on as many occasions, but not their overall military as they never did despite need and effort UNLESS we can explain why they’re so inept THEN we can debate if it can/will be overcome).

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Macaroni C-Pony

@GrimChariot
Let’s just agree to disagree, because if you’re only argument is “gags jokes and toon force don’t count”, none of this is going to make sense to you anyways.

At the end of the day, we can still calculate the force and speed behind these “joke” feats, and apply the science behind them to physics in our real world, but if you don’t accept anything because “it’s a cartoon” then what’s the point of debating this?

My opinions here is BASED on facts that I’ve studied researched over the years, and my conclusion is that Ponies win, and we lose horribly. Don’t take it personally because it’s “just a cartoon”

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GrimChariot

@Macaroni C-Pony
You are using comic and cartoon gags to justify abilities far beyond the average and normal abilities of ponies.

That immediately invalidates any value or merit this image or your argument has.

You really are trying to avoid any counter with “it’s a cartoon” while also trying to to put the cartoon in a physical world. That by definition does not work if you want any of this to be taken seriously.

In other words you are trying to do Who Framed Roger Rabbit rather then an actual comparison of abilities, and are excusing literally cartoon gags as actual physical ability

Celestia and Luna can barely defend themselves in 90% of canon media and are either so poorly trained as to be walking war crimes for their lack of control, thus limiting their abilities or are not nearly as powerful and only control aspects they are intrinsically linked to.

So no, being able to move the Sun does not inherently make them as strong as you say they are.

We have multiple forms of weaponry designed to nullify supersonic targets and once again stating every pegasus is capable of that is not just a reach but utterly impossible.

Our governments incompetent as hell but unfortunately a sudden army appearing in our territory out of thin air-most likely altered into humans and barely able to function for hours after the initial jump might I add-would be an easy target and decision.

And Discord is as useless as a toddler and rarely if ever does anything not slapstick.

Bill Cipher is a murderous psychotic entity that mutilates for amusement.

Discord=/=Cipher.

In a cartoon a character can routinely shrug off injuries that less then a minute earlier would leave them in casts and heal in seconds.

That isn’t magic. Thats loony tunes logic and in any argument where the above image is anything short of a laughable gag in and of itself does not apply.

Or are the ponies also 2D images moving in a 3D world in your concept?

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Macaroni C-Pony

@GrimChariot

@Macaroni C-Pony
If one applies toon physics then we physically can’t hurt them because it’s a PG show. So right there any argument for their durability is basically biased and shot in the foot because of course a human won’t survive a mach one impact with a rock-no natural or physics bound entity can, magic or not.

Well that’s just how it works, bro. Physics in their world are very different to physics in our world. They shouldn’t even exist, because they don’t. But if they did… it wouldn’t change anything

As stated- most normal ponies are not that capable.

Normal Ponies can’t talk either. Normal ponies can’t fly. Normal ponies can’t use magic. Normal ponies can’t build houses or glamourous cities or form fully-functional societies in sky. Normal ponies can’t control nature.

Not to mention, their raw strength means nothing and their speed means nothing when weaponry can track and tear them apart.

Weaponry that needs to be cleaned, maintained, transported to the front lines, loaded and armed, and manned with any significant damage shutting down or disabling said weaponry.

Pegasi can travel at the speed of sound. Barely a quarter of our weapons can do that, and even less are fully automated

No one can atop threats they aren’t prepared for, or aware of, on a small scale.

I’m pretty sure no amount of preparation can protect us from magic. And unlike US, Equestrians do have the means to access interdimensional portals, besides the Crystal mirror

If any major threat in Equestria Girls, which mind you is not Earth as we are or developed as we did, made itself known it would be dead.

There is literally nothing that implies that their Earth isn’t the more or less same as ours outside of it’s PG rating. That’s like saying world War 2 never happened in their universe because “it’s PG and war is bad”

Sirens sniped from a mile away, Gaia carpet bombed.

Kind of hard to imagine when a large majority of the population has already been hypnotized, as Adagio stated “everybody in this world will adore us”

I also find it hard to believe, given how incompetent out own government is they would be able to immediately track the source of the ensuing chaos to three teenage girls and deploy correct measures to incapacitate them BEFORE it’s too late. World Governments would likely be more focused on dealing with their army of increasingly growing zombies, many of which would include Media networks covering said events, local law enforcement and national guard, and eventually, world leaders.

I can’t speak for Gaia because I don’t remember the movie too well

And on what planet do you believe Even Luna or Celestia have the power to “Crush the planet with raw telekineses”?

They are stated to carry “the literal power of the sun” inside them. They can literally use magic, not SPELLS, actual magical power to move Celestial bodies across vast distances in a short amount of time. Luna and Celestia are stated by the pony of Shadows to carry the power to “break worlds”

I could buy discord maybe but he’s so useless outside of slapstick I doubt he’d even know how.

Discord is literally a living idea, an omnipotent, embodiment of the platonic concept chaos. He’s basically a Lovecraftian abstract, who and I quote “exists in the hearts of all those who desire order/chaos”

If Discord is useless, then so is Bill Cipher

Who in what world shows Rainbow breaking the speed of light?

in MLP Comic #100, Rainbow Dash had to fly back to Equestria from another country far away immediately, it explicitly shows her going up to Warp 8 Speed, which calculates is about 512 times faster than light

She’s also raced with Discord, who in In Friendship is Magic #24, flew from the Horsehead Nebula to Earth, which is 1,500 light years from Earth. He flew so fast he stated he accidently went back in time

Thats not only a feat that does not exist outside fannon but would also kill the one doing it

It’s called magic. Rainbow Dash literally time traveled using speed and lighting in MLP 20/20. The mane 6 can BREATHE in space, as shown during the Nightmarity arc. NOTHING about this makes sense, yet they still do it because MAGIC

Trixie is literally an average unicorn. That is the base line of what the guards have to work with, not Shining or Twilight so I really hope you understand that not every single pony can do even a third of the normal things you suggested or even Twilight couldn’t FTL herself without suiciding.

Applebloom and Derpy can dodge lighting and shrug off tanking it. Cheerilee can bust down walls and doors, literally everyone in Ponyville was jumping from rooftops to rooftops in less than a second during the smile song. Grimhoof and Nimbus Dash we’re literally flying in tune with lighting bolts.

As for Twilight, she reacted to sunlight before it hit her face in the MLP movie. She also scales to Fire Flare, a normal unicorn who cast as spell that reached the moon in less than a second, so that debunks that.

And to top it off, Equestrian magic is much MUCH stronger outside Equestria. Midnight Sparkle, a human, a unicorn by pony standards, with no experience in magic, almost destroyed the universe AND pushed back the Elements of Harmony. SO if she can destroy the universe, imagine what ALICORNS can do.

Twilight alone can collapse our society simply using the Need it, Want it spell and just leaving it in the middle of New York Times Square

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GrimChariot

@Macaroni C-Pony
If one applies toon physics then we physically can’t hurt them because it’s a PG show.

So right there any argument for their durability is basically biased and shot in the foot because of course a human won’t survive a mach one impact with a rock-no natural or physics bound entity can, magic or not.

As stated- most normal ponies are not that capable.

Not to mention, their raw strength means nothing and their speed means nothing when weaponry can track and tear them apart.

No one can atop threats they aren’t prepared for, or aware of, on a small scale.

If any major threat in Equestria Girls, which mind you is not Earth as we are or developed as we did, made itself known it would be dead.

Sirens sniped from a mile away, Gaia carpet bombed.

And on what planet do you believe Even Luna or Celestia have the power to “Crush the planet with raw telekineses”?

I could buy discord maybe but he’s so useless outside of slapstick I doubt he’d even know how.

Who in what world shows Rainbow breaking the speed of light?

Thats not only a feat that does not exist outside fannon but would also kill the one doing it

Trixie is literally an average unicorn. That is the base line of what the guards have to work with, not Shining or Twilight so I really hope you understand that not every single pony can do even a third of the normal things you suggested or even Twilight couldn’t FTL herself without suiciding.

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Macaroni C-Pony

@GrimChariot
Okay first of all, of all, we are NOT removing cartoon physics because this the toon force is literally intertwined with Equestrian magic. We CANNOT apply realistic standards to fictional characters because that defeats the whole purpose.

By this logic, I could beat the crap out of bugs bunny because he’s just a rabbit, and most of his bouts of strength and speed are just “gags”

In a conflict fresh out the gate, Equestira is lost if they don’t have similar assistance from Harmony and the ability to effectively hold the world ransom for peace and control. So stepping into a human conflict outside their world would, initially at least, be a slaughter.

Okay, no. I’ve already pointed out we have the advantage in tactical prowess and experience, however their raw speed and strength would simply outclass us to the point where we would be overwhelmed by power we have no experience or defense against

Magic isn’t real in our world. In fiction it is already capable of bypassing conventional speed and durability warping reality. The combined efforts of all governments would have NO means to defend their selves against what the series has shown it can do. Midnight Sparkle alone nearly destroyed the ENTIRE universe. In fact, it’s outright stated in “Spring Breakdown” the humane mane 6, who are leagues weaker than their Pony counterparts, saved the world multiple times, shich implies that if they didn’t stop those threats, no one could’ve, because Equestrian magic is so dangerous, raw traces break the fabric of reality.

And even then they would most likely level the playing field since our technology far outstrips basic unicorn blasting-something stronger would be comparable but we have very little to go off a normal ponies actual danger level outside of outliers like Twilight and Starlight.

Even our most technology isn’t gonna do squat if one of them decides to just crush the Earth with raw telekinesis. Hell, the are literally so many ways we die here, I’m inclined to say the Royal Guard ARE indeed useless

>> Even Trixie who’s closer to average more often then not relies on throwing things instead of blasting because it’s more effective then a focused blast

Trixie’s one of the most fodder characters in the show. Rainbow Dash alone could destroy the planet going faster than light.

Yeah, I think this is wrong. We’re not winning a theoretical war with Equestria in the end, not even a chance. Especially with how divisive our own society is right now. Me an Incursor we’re just debating how effective the Royal Guard would be in this scenario

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GrimChariot

@Macaroni C-Pony
One would imagine the royal guard should be competent but even the ones that show actual skill (i.e Shining Armor) show a severe lack of tactical forethought and planning that even Celestia and Luna didn’t notice or care to advise/correct despite supposedly being very competent by pony standards.

Considering the lackluster armor-because while yes they are wearing horse armor, it’s more suited to being ridden then being an actual combatant by design-and the relatively subpar ethics, training standards and military regulations we’ve seen it’s safe to say that while the guard are capable of being a threat even if one removes the cartoon physics since those aren’t physical ability in so much used for gags and to keep things PG…

They simply aren’t because none of them are properly trained beyond the most basic concepts and their equipment is centuries if not millennia behind.

This can easily be attributed to three things.

Controlling the Sun and Moon means they have a threat that can’t be underestimated and thus beat down any conflict from organized countries(justified or not) by using them as leverage.

Harmony intervenes and thus kneecaps experience and advancement to dangerous and or hostile fields.

A thousand years of isolationist peace and a very lax training ethic and leniency on failures resulting in a substandard higher command and a focus more on appearance then capability.

In a conflict fresh out the gate, Equestira is lost if they don’t have similar assistance from Harmony and the ability to effectively hold the world ransom for peace and control.

So stepping into a human conflict outside their world would, initially at least, be a slaughter.

And even then they would most likely level the playing field since our technology far outstrips basic unicorn blasting-something stronger would be comparable but we have very little to go off a normal ponies actual danger level outside of outliers like Twilight and Starlight.

Even Trixie who’s closer to average more often then not relies on throwing things instead of blasting because it’s more effective then a focused blast.

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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
That’s the tricky part. There isn’t much to go off.

What we CAN do is scale them to Ponyville’s citizens, who are indeed superhuman based off of individual feats such as lifting houses (Big Mac and Lily Longsocks have done this), lifting 1000 pounds with only their wings (Bluebell has done this), dodging and shrugging off lighting strikes (Derpy and Applebloom have done this), busting through walls and doors (Applebloom and Cherilee have done this) and jumping from rooftop to rooftop in seconds and surviving falling several feet from the air like it’s nothing (Literally everypony during the Smile song and Slice of Life)

Theoretically, the RG, as the official army, should be superior to their most of their own citizens and thus capable of doing the same things non-important characters have accomplished

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Incursor

@Macaroni C-Pony
Stormtroopers can be dietetically explained by work’s anti-Empire bias. Any ideas why such would apply to the Royal Guard despite being on the protagonist side?

The one reason I can think for such is because the show is promoting the magic of friendship which couldn’t happen if the RG did their job dealing with threats before that. But the Star Wars example I can see as editing around their wins, they still have enough in the works for said analysis to determine their true effectiveness. Do the RG have any scenes that show/prove they are capable of, as opposed to just should be, the same feats we’ve calculated in others? (Out of universe, why even have Guards in the show if they can’t be effective without undercutting the story.)

The one theory I can see for having them is holding the line until the ponies gifted and capable enough to actually be effective can be mobilized. But outside the Crystal War timeline I don’t know any time they’ve even been effective at that.

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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
I mean, personally I see taking Vs debates more seriously than just for fun is more engaging, but requires and in depth amount of research to reach certain conclusions, which I DO enjoy

As opposed to franchises like Transformers, Star Wars, or DBZ, MLP has simply hasn’t shown much on the battlefield, which forces us to take bits and pieces of hat we DO know and gather and form analytical guesstimations on what they could and should be capable of, despite the lack of physical evidence. This is often the case in any Vs scenario

For example, I believe {this Youtuber made a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2TA9coGLzM) explaining how lethal and devastating Stormtroopers, of all henchmen in fiction, actually are compared to how they’re represented in official canon

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Incursor

@Macaroni C-Pony
Yes to the “plot-induced stupidity and “character-induced stupidity” point, and to this theoretical scenario being more for fun than serious.

But as for your Royal Guard point, I agree that should be the case that they should be as capable as the civilians described. But it’s not, they have aways failed to show or even attempt that level of capability or competency. They’re so consistent about that it’s past the point I can see any way to rationalize this as anything other than their actual average combat effectiveness. (How Equestria lasted as long as it did/has them if so ineffectual, that’d be inventing explanations as opposed to debating canon.)

Whatever the reason for this, be they care so little for warfare it fails to attract their most capable (Shining Armor’s the one exception) or train to human standards of effectiveness, or such is anathema to what makes ponies work at their best (said Wonderbolts are normally as effective as you describe but tank when doing anything considered military), their consistent inability to put their advantages to use in a proper military capacity is something that has to be considered in a human vs pony scenario.

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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
I’m a little confused by the first two paragraphs, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe what you’re saying is there is a difference between “plot-induced stupidity” and “character-induced stupidity” which CAN factor into scenario, yes I agree.

I also agree on the interpretation of the image Vs. the actuality of this theoretical scenario
I’m sure the artist here just created this for fun. Truth be told we simply don’t have much knowledge on Equestria’s military, which leaves a lot to speculation on their side of things.

However, I’d disagree with the Royal Guard being completely useless due to 3 specific comparisons we can make to non-military ponies:

Assuming the most foot soldier Ponies are at least basically trained and in peak physical condition, Each soldier should be just as strong and fast as if not more than Spitfire, a Wonderbolt, who has broken the sound barrier, Fire Flare, a civilian, who’s magic can reach the moon in seconds, and Big Mac, also technically a civilian, who can move houses.

While we would still hold the advantage over them in technology, adaption, and possibly experience in warfare, theoretically, they would still possesses overwhelming speed and power compared to our own grounds forces and possibly be only countered by our most advanced jets, tanks, and mobile weaponry.

However that’s just my opinion

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Incursor

@Macaroni C-Pony
Sorry for the delay. It seems we are using different definitions of “plot induced stupidity”. You seem to argue any stupidity/inconsistency is this. I argue that if diegetic then we must assume their moments of stupidity were “real” and thus do to character flaws and limitations that would reduce their combat effectiveness the power calculations argue. If argued their stupidity isn’t real, it can be just as argued there calculated power isn’t real (as it’s almost never factored in to their defeats).

But how define stupidity and factor it in is more subjective than I’m intreated in debating unless you want to. And it’s taken me off-topic from my objection to this and the other image.

The analysis’s you provided are of main characters feats, and I can accept how we’d be f*cked against them. What I argue against is these images claiming an average unicorn is capable of similar advanced feats (shields, specialized spells, advanced telekinesis) when not even their soldiers, whom would have had opportunity and motive to train in it if possible, have been able to preform such.

If it’s consistent with the show the pony military will be quickly routed or left irrelevant, with the ponies victory coming down to the actions of main characters.

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Macaroni C-Pony

@Incursor
I’m too tired for a debate, so I’m just going leave these here so you make your own analyzations
https://www.fanverse.org/threads/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-feat-evaluation-discussion-thread.1093301/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/more-speed-revisions-for-my-little-pony-telekinesis-edition.61670/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-revisions-part-2.50689/
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/perfectly-reasonable-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-calcs.255294/

And assuming any character is going “caught off-guard/overwhelmed/forgetting their powers or other stupidity” is literally the same thing as the “x wins because the story says so” trope. So that nonsense doesn’t apply. There’s no plot induced stupidity here.

Everypony is prepared, determined, and focused on winning in this hypothetical war where they either destroy humanity or subjugate it completely, and Rainbow Dash ALONE can break the planet according to this video

We’d be f*cked in this scenario and that’s that

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Incursor

I can’t tell if this was meant to be a serious analysis, a joke, or in-universe propaganda.

There is nothing in the show to suggest magic can intercept or hack radio/electronics. If you have to invent unsubstantiated properties it seems like the losing side of the argument.

Relating to this and this prior example.

If you can’t come up with counter-tactics for earth ponies or pegasi to use, that’s an argument against if 2/3 of your army is SOL.
Casting shields or other spells are shown to takes time, more than it takes for bullets to get to point A to B. They’d be helpful, but only if there’s advanced notice to cast a competent enemy will avoid giving.

@Macaroni C-Pony
If we are analyzing this diegetically (otherwise “x wins because the story says so” invalidates the point of this) then we have to assume their army will be as (in)capable as in the show. Even if assumed they’re effective enough offscreen to justify their existence, that they’ve never used shield or specialized spells despite every reason to use/learn them means there must be some limitation that keeps it from being widespread enough to win a war/be used as these pic depict. (Agree they should be able to use said spells if not explained why not but then we’re no longer debating FIM.)

Yes character like Pinkie and the Princesses have power/skill to best humans as easily as these depict. But their being the rare exception and even they being bested due to being caught off-guard/overwhelmed/forgetting their powers or other stupidity means humanity has the advantage in the long run bar a deus ex machina like Discord or the Elements.

As for their fighting changelings they were still bested seemingly without a fight when cast off guard arguing their advantages could be negated by guns/basic human infantry tactics. Guns would also negate what advantages ponies would have over humans in a 1v1 fight (reach and durability).

And yes human soldiers wouldn’t fare better than Royal Guard in the series given the threats were god-tier/used subterfuge. The 2017 Movie, which was the closest to conventional fight due to the strongest powers/being absent/quickly taken out, likely would have gone over differently an be over sooner if the RG were trained humans with guns. Also if Canterlot was completely subjugated by an army small enough it was best by just 13 being it doesn’t speak well of Equestria’s overall military ability.

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Background Pony #8D2F

*beaten human ground forces retreat their space ship and left planet of Equestria. Those ponies and their friends killed 2/3 of their forces.
“ Game over, man! Game over.” shocked Enlisted marine at the edge of crying. “Let’s forget about those Trillion-billion minerals and natural resources! Just bug out of here to the fuck!

General sitting between its soldiers in Gendo pose. “I say we take off and nuke those roadshitters and their friends from orbit. We still can exploit the planat after that.”

“That’s why you’re the General, General!”

(Control off the air is important! Especially if we are talking about space. That’s where Luna and Celestia could play the biggest role, but how much is not sure.)

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